Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Social bookmarking

Social bookmarking Digg  Social bookmarking Delicious  Social bookmarking Reddit  Social bookmarking Stumbleupon  Social bookmarking Slashdot  Social bookmarking Yahoo  Social bookmarking Google  Social bookmarking Blinklist  Social bookmarking Blogmarks  Social bookmarking Technorati  

Bookmark and share the address of =BB= Bot Busters =BB= on your social bookmarking website


Map bot behavior complaints/comments

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Easykill on Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:11 pm

Since no one is posting in the map specific threads lets just consolidate any discussion into this one thread.
If you have complaints about bot behavior or weaknesses on specific maps please give the map name and the issue you would like to see addressed.

Easykill
Admin
Admin

Posts : 239
Join date : 2012-07-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by hi there bots! on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:33 am

Hi there,

Just two things I've noticed recently, about older maps:


1. creek_x - When bots are attacking, the ones who are heading to the generator from outside don't stop falling in water: they climb back, try to do a jump onto a ledge but most of the time it fails, then they walk on the right and fall down again in water, and bis repetita...

I don't know if you can make sure they actually manage these jumps (maybe some crouch-jumps needed?) onto those ledges.


2. well_now - Just played it again lately and I noticed it was really easy to get the flag from the water tunnel. Didn't play it very long tho, but if it's not the case, maybe set a HWG bot to camp in there (and tell him to swim back up to the surface now and then, to breathe some, eh? :p).

Also, I noticed there was no def at all in the attic (but, again, didn't play it long enough, so I'm not sure it's a real weakness). Thanks for your time if you can have a look at the waypoints for the def on this map.

hi there bots!

Posts : 9
Join date : 2012-09-07
Location : France

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Easykill on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:37 pm

I think those waypoints came with foxbot. I don't think they were developed by the server or previous owol server group. The people who did those mostly have a lot more experience than I or omni do. I don't know whether omni wants to mess with or tweak those, but I am willing to play around with them if omni is agreeable.

On the creek_x map, that map is seldom played because the bots are pretty weak on offense. Same with mooncheese. There is no way to be so specific as to tell them to crouch jump. The bot code is programmed to have them crouch and move around if they can't make progress to the next waypoint, so they don't get permanently stuck somewhere. This causes them to often fall off ledges and it can be a real pita to tweak the points to stop this. I am willing to look at that jump and try to play around with it a bit though. Still, getting a demo to det the generator seems to be a problem as well so I'm not sure it is ever going to be a strong map or get much play.


Well_now can be tricky. It is important to understand that when you set up defensive points the bots only view them as suggestions and are programmed to prioritize different jobs. We don't really have any control over this prioritizing, though we can sometimes influence it by altering path lengths. There is no way to FORCE the bots to go to rather out of the way locations like that. You can alter the lengths of paths by making them run out of the way on other paths, but that might then cause them to abandon the main paths. This is a common problem on many maps with multiple routes. There is no way to prioritize routes and tell the bots to take this route 75% of the time and another route 25%. So when you path through things like the attic or water tunnels the bots either generally ignore it or it becomes the key path that is almost always taken and it weakens them covering the main ground. I am having a similar problem with the_valley_2 where I have paths and defensive positions in the flag room but I can't seem to get the bots to go down there much. I am willing to look at the waypoints on this map but I probably won't be able to do much about this, at least not without weakening the play balance elsewhere.

They are good suggestions though and lead to a point that is worth discussing. Maybe it would be worth changing some of these maps every so often to keep the humans on their toes. Once people learn the weaknesses of the bots on these maps they can become repetitive and it might be a good idea to shuffle the behavior/weaknesses around so human players have to change their tactics on these maps. Maybe backing up the waypoint files and having a number of differing waypoint files to rotate through, every so often, would keep things interesting.

Easykill
Admin
Admin

Posts : 239
Join date : 2012-07-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Chaotic Llama on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:58 pm

Easykill wrote:I think those waypoints came with foxbot. I don't think they were developed by the server or previous owol server group. The people who did those mostly have a lot more experience than I or omni do.

For the record, going back years my archive had grown to 520 waypoints though we only made use of 98 of them. Personally, I only learned to waypoint just recently and created waypoints/areas for our own custom owol_smallfort. I tried to get our community more involved in waypointing but failed, bitches just wanted to play! Razz

We could have used you back then, I applaud your efforts.
avatar
Chaotic Llama

Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-08-05
Location : Missouri

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Easykill on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:06 pm

Chaotic Llama wrote:

We could have used you back then,

Truthfully, until the end I had no idea who owned/ran the owol server. I knew tom had certain admin privileges but he never talked much and I assumed that the server was one of those that was just left up unchanged but largely abandoned. I would have assumed that my lack of knowledge made my help unwanted but, if I had known that community help was desired, I would have tried to do what I could. I was never aware of any interest in that. If I remember correctly the web server seemed quite dead.

I just kind of fell into doing the little I have done here.

edit: I have a question for you or omni while I'm thinking about it.
The version of foxbot used here is because that was the version used with owol? Was this because tests were done with newer versions and they were found to be lacking or because moving to a newer version would be a major undertaking?

Easykill
Admin
Admin

Posts : 239
Join date : 2012-07-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Chaotic Llama on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:59 pm

Easykill wrote:Truthfully, until the end I had no idea who owned/ran the owol server. I knew tom had certain admin privileges but he never talked much and I assumed that the server was one of those that was just left up unchanged but largely abandoned.
To little to late, lol. I tried to put my name on everything. While we ran far more than just tfc, I was there behind the scenes grinding away daily keeping things up-to-date.

Easykill wrote:
I would have assumed that my lack of knowledge made my help unwanted but, if I had known that community help was desired, I would have tried to do what I could.
Nope... I offered to help anyone who wanted to learn. I even went as far as supplying people with whatever they needed to waypoint or whatever else we could all, as a community, benefit from.

Easykill wrote:
If I remember correctly the web server seemed quite dead.
If you mean our forum. Then, yes... it got quite stale and I was the only one left posting. I don't see how one could NOT know I was "teh man in charge", but I digress.

Easykill wrote:
The version of foxbot used here is because that was the version used with owol? Was this because tests were done with newer versions and they were found to be lacking?
While I won't put words in Omni's mouth. The version running is the one everyone was happiest with. We, the owol community, tested a few newer releases though in the end rolled back. However, since that time, even newer releases have been rolled out.

Most of the input from testing came from Ole, Tom, JohnToms or w/e he goes by now, lol. I don't even think he bothers with forums anymore, he's off noclipping around the world somewhere. lol3
avatar
Chaotic Llama

Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-08-05
Location : Missouri

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Easykill on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:59 pm

hi there bots! wrote:Hi there,

Just two things I've noticed recently, about older maps:


1. creek_x - When bots are attacking, the ones who are heading to the generator from outside don't stop falling in water: they climb back, try to do a jump onto a ledge but most of the time it fails, then they walk on the right and fall down again in water, and bis repetita...

I don't know if you can make sure they actually manage these jumps (maybe some crouch-jumps needed?) onto those ledges.


2. well_now - Just played it again lately and I noticed it was really easy to get the flag from the water tunnel. Didn't play it very long tho, but if it's not the case, maybe set a HWG bot to camp in there (and tell him to swim back up to the surface now and then, to breathe some, eh? :p).

Also, I noticed there was no def at all in the attic (but, again, didn't play it long enough, so I'm not sure it's a real weakness). Thanks for your time if you can have a look at the waypoints for the def on this map.


Omni do you want me to try to deal with these issues or would you rather I not?

Easykill
Admin
Admin

Posts : 239
Join date : 2012-07-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by M0N3Y on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:00 pm

Chaotic Llama wrote:While I won't put words in Omni's mouth. The version running is the one everyone was happiest with. We, the owol community, tested a few newer releases though in the end rolled back. However, since that time, even newer releases have been rolled out.

Most of the input from testing came from Ole, Tom, JohnToms or w/e he goes by now, lol. I don't even think he bothers with forums anymore, he's off noclipping around the world somewhere. lol3

I remember those testing days. Had some good updates but also bad.

Good:
-Snipers strafed.
-Bots using teleporters more frequently.

Bad:
-Bot using crowbars instead of kamikazing themselves (solys and demos mostly) to get more kills.
-They were programmed to run from nades which meant they were easily pinned into spawns and basically never attempted to come out. This was the major factor, I think, to roll back to Foxbot .701

Newest version is .77


Here is the MEGA list of updates:

- Used a different compiler to create the Windows version.
Hopefully this will resolve a particular 'badf' load error some people have
been experiencing.

- The bot behaviour code has been re-written to allow for more advanced behaviour.
The bots can now multitask by keeping track of a number of jobs that they
currently want to do and prioritising which job they think is the most important.

- Medic and Engineer bots can now navigate via waypoints to a more distant ally
that they want to heal/repair.

- The bots can now wait for a Medic to reach them if they call for one.

- Fixed a problem where the bots didn't know they were still infected if the medic
who infected them then changed to a new class.

- Snipers can now stop and begin charging their rifles just before moving into
a sniper waypoint.

- Demomen bots can now use the Pipebomb Launcher as a normal combat weapon.

- Demomen wont detpack a waypoint if they arrive and find a detpack there already
or can see that it has been detpacked already.

- Bot Engineers can now volunteer to play offense or defense on their teams.

- Bots on defense can now patrol from defense waypoint to defense waypoint.

- The bots can now guard a flag that an opposing team has dropped.
They can also report it's location if they know the area.

- Bots of skill 1, 2 and 3 will now try to find somewhere to surface and breathe if
they start drowning.

- The hunted can go look for the last seen ally if he is alone.
He can also open the exit garage doors to let himself out.

- Intimidated bots can hide out of sight of an enemy and then wait a short while
for allies to come along.

- The bots can tell when a grenade has ceased to be a threat if they were avoiding it.

- The bots can now escort or pursue players they can't see by making predictions
about where to find them.

- The bots have a better understanding of how high they can concussion or rocket jump.
They also check for low ceilings, and can detect rocket/concussion jump waypoints better.

- If not facing a jump waypoint fully then the bots will pause until they're
ready to jump.

- When climbing ladders the bots check their height more precisely compared
with their next waypoint. i.e. they climb ladders more accurately.
They also try to prevent ladder traffic jams by jumping off before they occur.

- Bot navigation has been improved when they are fighting underwater.

- The Bots are better at recognising when they have fallen off of a ledge.

- Fixed a few problems when the bots try to use lifts.

- The bots can react to footstep sounds if footsteps are active on the server.

- Each bot has a memory for a maximum of three different Teleporter pairs at any one time.
First they can test any Teleporters they find to see where they go,
afterwards they can use them as shortcuts to destinations.

- The bots can now attack any enemy owned Teleporters they find.

- The bots can now attack any breakable items they come across.

- The bots will throw grenades more directly at the last known enemy position,
and will not twitch any more if throwing an uneeded grenade away.

- The bots crouch when they are just above their target so that their
close combat weapons can reach.

- Engineers will detonate their Teleporters if the waypoints they built them
at are no longer available(because of a map script).

- Updated the counter-classing code. Bots can choose certain classes if
those classes aren't on their team and they are getting killed by a player
who has a significantly better score than they do.
They may try to counter-class high scoring Snipers with Snipers or HW Guys,
Engineers with Spies, and Medics with Medics(to counter infection).

- Fixed a bug where two or more bots could end up with the same name even though
there were more than enough unique names available.

- New config setting: bot_allow_moods (0 - 1)
When set active each bot can have a randomly assigned set of personality
characteristics. Turn this off if you want all the bots to have the same
average personality profile.

- New config setting: bot_allow_humour (0 - 1)
When this is active the bots are allowed to go a bit crazy occasionally and
do fun stuff that probably wont help them win the game.

- New bot personality trait/mood.
Humour. i.e. how willing the bot is to do something daft to lighten the moment.

- New bot personality trait/mood.
Aggression.
More aggressive bots are less likely to back out of a fight, and more
likely to pursue enemies if they think they have the upper hand.
Low aggression bots are more cautious of enemies.

- New personality trait/mood: fairplay.
The higher this trait is the more likely the bot is to play honorably.
For example:
1. A more honorable bot is more likely to join a team that has the fewest
players.
2. A more honorable bot is more likely to switch teams if bot_team_balance
is switched off and the teams become unbalanced.

- New behaviour that may trigger if bot_allow_humour is active.
Individual bots may decide to go on the rampage with just close combat
weapons if they haven't seen any enemies for a while.

- New behaviour that may trigger if bot_allow_humour is active.
The bots can choose to go and spray a nearby wall if they haven't seen
any enemies for a while.

- New console command: spectate_debug (0 - 4)
This command has been created primarily for Foxbot development purposes.
When this is active a hosting human spectator(on a listen server) who comes really
close to a bot will trigger detailed debug messages about it's behaviour.

- Updated the bot chat system and the bot chat file.
Chat section headers are now enclosed by these symbols - '[' and ']'
The chat sections can also appear in any order.
Older Foxbot chat files are not compatible with this release(easy to convert though).

- A new pair of bot settings have been added.
bot_skill_1_aim and bot_aim_per_skill.
When used together you can set the accuracy levels for all bot skill levels.
Please see the foxbot.cfg or bot documentation for information on how they operate.

- Bot accuracy is now less twitchy and more human-like in style.

- Fixed the pause config setting(the delay before bots join the server).
Now it works as documented.

- New config setting: bot_create_interval.
This setting governs the delay between spawning one bot and the next
when the server is being automatically filled with bots.

- New bot setting added: bot_total_varies.
This setting can be used to help simulate playing TFC online.
When it is active the number of bots on the server will fluctuate from
min_bots to max_bots randomly.

- Different bots now prefer different classes which means:
1. If team balance is switched off then the bots may pick teams based
upon what classes each team offers.
2. A bot that is allowed to change class may play longer with a class
it prefers.

- bot_can_build_teleporter and bot_can_use_teleporter now work as server commands
for all server types.

- Fixed a waypoint editing bug where the script number flags for a waypoint weren't
being cleared when the waypoint was deleted. (this bug appeared in Foxbot 0.76)

- The 'locate_waypoint' command now provides information about the height and distance
of the waypoint relative to the host player on a listen server.
Also it will give the route distance from the nearest waypoint if possible.

- More waypoint file fixes and tweaks for the standard maps.
avatar
M0N3Y
Admin
Admin

Posts : 234
Join date : 2012-07-01
Age : 33
Location : MA

http://botbusters.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by OmniDragon on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:48 pm

Easykill wrote:Omni do you want me to try to deal with these issues or would you rather I not?

Well, those 2 maps are not really fan favorites. I think I can recall one dude that really likes well_now. But.. Hmm, I don't know those 2 maps are kinda stale now.. especially creek_x. I'm not if anyone really loves that map. I think people mostly enjoy piping into thier door or being a sniper on that map! haha. I think it would be better if you focused on new content... But it's up to you man. I'll help too if you decide to overhaul one of these, where and when I can. Smile
avatar
OmniDragon
Admin
Admin

Posts : 359
Join date : 2012-07-13
Age : 32
Location : Missouri

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Easykill on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:37 pm

OmniDragon wrote:
Easykill wrote:Omni do you want me to try to deal with these issues or would you rather I not?

I think it would be better if you focused on new content... But it's up to you man. I'll help too if you decide to overhaul one of these, where and when I can. Smile

If you are happy with the pace of new map releases then I will focus on new content. If you think it is too much too fast then I will probably have a look at those maps if you want to slow down new map introductions.

If you are willing to proceed from my consolidated list of the requests people have made on page four of the map request topic, then I will focus on waypointing navarone if you will focus on getting turin tested and loaded, which should already have completed waypoints.

I haven't been able to check out run with the new waypoints yet but I'm reasonably happy with most of the maps I have waypointed so far. There are weaknesses but I think they provide some enjoyment. The valley seems better with the update. Do you have any significant issues you think need to be addressed with any of those maps?

Easykill
Admin
Admin

Posts : 239
Join date : 2012-07-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by OmniDragon on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:01 pm

I havn't even looked at the new run yet. I'll check it out and focus on getting turin up and running. Smile
avatar
OmniDragon
Admin
Admin

Posts : 359
Join date : 2012-07-13
Age : 32
Location : Missouri

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Bruno29625 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:41 pm

Last night i was spectating CZ2 and i noticed MOST of the BOTS cant get up the ladder at command point 5 ..... only ones that seemed to get up was medics, at times ...... and if they could not get up they were blocking others from getting up. :-) , good for the humans though
avatar
Bruno29625
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1106
Join date : 2012-07-02
Age : 102
Location : Anderson, South Carolina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8XN8qtG50

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Bruno29625 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:31 am

Tonight i was spectating RUN_bb .... at the start of the game ALL bots stay in the beginning flag area ! the never move out and flag never leaves flag area (bots dont eather) needs a fixing affraid
avatar
Bruno29625
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1106
Join date : 2012-07-02
Age : 102
Location : Anderson, South Carolina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8XN8qtG50

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Easykill on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:43 am

Bruno29625 wrote:Tonight i was spectating RUN_bb .... at the start of the game ALL bots stay in the beginning flag area ! the never move out and flag never leaves flag area (bots dont eather) needs a fixing affraid

ok thanks for the information.

Easykill
Admin
Admin

Posts : 239
Join date : 2012-07-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by OmniDragon on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:35 pm

Yeah, I've got only part of the script uploaded, having a bit of trouble getting stuff up today. I'll try and fix it after work or tomorrow.
avatar
OmniDragon
Admin
Admin

Posts : 359
Join date : 2012-07-13
Age : 32
Location : Missouri

Back to top Go down

Saltene mouth again

Post by q/)/)/)/) Knoq on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:35 am

its all about navigation.
Here at BB we get badass, ie..great combat bots, but the AI is obviously limited with nav. Nav coincides with the the think ability of the bot.
Simply jus make more wps available to the AI
Client does their nav to the goal and this is subsequently stored as a nav which becomes available to the BOT thereafter > assuming the server has made available the callouts.
Laff > Maybe its all about the numbers (FRAGS) that keeps simple upgrades to the AI that motivates the Bosses here!
As always my stuff is available to BB fer watever
avatar
q/)/)/)/) Knoq

Posts : 24
Join date : 2012-07-17
Age : 51
Location : Packwood, Wa./Puyallup,Wa./Sunrise/Az

Back to top Go down

Re: Map bot behavior complaints/comments

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum