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Map editing thread

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Map editing thread

Post by hi there bots! on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:46 am

Hi everyone,

I'm replying to this thread after the lil chat we had, with Easykill, yesterday on the server, about editing the map run.

So, indeed, if you only need to have the spawn points modified, it's a very easy thing to do, with a tool like 'bspedit'. This tool allows you to edit any of the 'entities' of the map: you see the infos (as plain text), modify the part you want, save your changes, and done.

The filesize of the .bsp will change, most of the time, but for things like spawn points editing, it won't create any issue (regarding client/server differences).

Although, what is MANDATORY to do, is to upload the edited version of the map onto the game server, and the original map onto the fast DL server! This way, players who don't have the map will always download the original version, never the edited one.

I'm familiar with all this as I'm running a TFC Skillz server here in Europe (Multiskillz for Buddies), a private server with special features and many edited maps like that (but most of the time edited to -really- fix some issues, like, indeed, adding more spawn points to prevent telefragging, among other things).

I've had a quick look at run's entities, and found all the spawn points for Team 1 and Team 2, so we could easily edit them in order to make Team 1 spawn here, and Team 2 spawn there.

Just tell me if you want me to try and edit it like that, for a test, I'll take the time to do it.

- groovy (my Steam profile nick)

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by M0N3Y on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:53 am

hi there bots! wrote:

Just tell me if you want me to try and edit it like that, for a test, I'll take the time to do it.

- groovy (my Steam profile nick)

Yeah man!, can't ever say no to a map editor, they are far and few between in the TFC world.
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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Easykill on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:25 pm

My suggestion would be to have blue(us) spawn near the loading dock/warehouse such as here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and to have red spawn near the other cap outside the generator room, such as in this area:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Just don't have red spawn in a location where they will be easy to trap in a building exit choke point or the map will just become an endless spam fest.

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Chaotic Llama on Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:01 pm

There are better/easier ways to make changes. Also... being you're physically not changing/editing the bsp, copyright© really isn't an issue imho, lol

Another thing to consider, the custom-content dl'd from the server is taken right from the game directory being that's how the host set it up.


Last edited by Chaotic Llama on Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fyi: custom-content)
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Re: Map editing thread

Post by hi there bots! on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:33 am

Wow, ok, so if we go on editing maps like that, we'll have to rename them, adding a tag as Bloodshed BoB already suggested above.

How about mapname_bb.bsp, to really indicate these maps have been edited for the =BB= server? Wink

[contrarily to a _r or _r2 tag, which could mean that it's a real revision one/two coming from the original mapper]

Anyway, I think we should start a new thread, because we're kinda off-topic now in this one.

Maybe create a 'Map editing topic' (or... we could talk about map editing in the Map request topic, maybe? as you wish)

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Easykill on Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:01 pm

"There are better/easier ways to make changes."

Can you go into details about this then?

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by hi there bots! on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:00 pm

Thank you Easykill for adding this thread.

Indeed I wondered some too about an "easier" way to make these changes, but I guess Chaotic Llama is thinking about some entity-spawning plugin (must be the plugin Omni uses to add nade packs on maps :p).

About the map run, I'm a bit confused now Easy... do you really think it will be interesting/playable ok with bots? There are 3 ammo-bags ONLY on the map [well, with what I've just said above, I guess more bags could magically appear here or there, hehe], and what behaviour have you planned for the bots on it? I'm afraid they won't have time to build SG's etc, because there is no grate or anything to prevent blue team from rushing.

Well, it could turn into a big DM fiesta, after all, why not Smile
I think this map was created with that idea in mind (hence the original random spawn points).

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Easykill on Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:43 pm

hi there bots! wrote:

About the map run, I'm a bit confused now Easy... do you really think it will be interesting/playable ok with bots? There are 3 ammo-bags ONLY on the map and what behaviour have you planned for the bots on it? I'm afraid they won't have time to build SG's etc, because there is no grate or anything to prevent blue team from rushing.


I don't know but I would like to play around with it and find out, if it's possible. I'm the one who suggested cj2 and many people seem to not like that map, but as people are learning to organize and move as a team I think people are finding it more tolerable. My point being that my predictive powers about these things leave something to be desired so maybe the whole effort will turn out to be a boondoggle. I think it is worth putting in some effort to find out but if you are having trouble getting the spawning changed then don't feel obligated to spend too much time on it. We have quite a few new maps right now and there are enough requests in the pipeline to keep things fresh through the winter.
Setting spawn points on opposite sides of the map may make it play out more like a standard capture the flag with two bases, but it isn't designed to be a map with static defenses and sgs aren't really crucial to it.

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by OmniDragon on Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:53 pm

hi there bots! wrote:
Well, it could turn into a big DM fiesta, after all, why not Smile
I think this map was created with that idea in mind (hence the original random spawn points).

Yeah I agree to. That's basically what it was, frag fest 2012 lol, and yeah it's possible to strip out/add things with stripper2. My thinking on it though was, is it worth all the work on a map like run? Basically you'd have to completely change what the map was all about, add bags like crazy, edit spawn points, ect. I mean, I'm not saying I'm lazy (only half the time lol), but I am saying, shouldn't we find a more worthwile map to pour our time and resources in to? That's just my 2 cents. I do think run is a great map for pvp. But for bots.. not so much. I don't even really like the layout for bots.

Btw, I LOVE your idea to make a map name _bb. That's taking Bob's idea and making it even better! There's a ton of tf2 maps/server that add thier groups names into a maps...
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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Chaotic Llama on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:23 pm

Question:
Easykill wrote:"There are better/easier ways to make changes."

Can you go into details about this then?

Answer:
OmniDragon wrote:It's possible to strip out/add things with stripper2.

I've tantalized Omni with all things leet. As he's learned it comes down to having the time to do things, lol. Anyways, tweaking bsps was the way to go maybe 10+years ago... but with the use of metamod tools like stripper2, you're just creating configs to do the dirty work.
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run_bb available for testing

Post by hi there bots! on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:27 am

Well, here we go, here's the link to DL the edited version of RUN!

run_bb - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I've added some lines after the original .txt to mention the changes.

It was not really complicated, don't worry Easykill, just took some time to carefully place the new spawn points, and I've followed your suggestion, of course.

I don't know if this could have been done with stripper2 tho (replacing existing info_player_teamspawn ents with new ones), I've never used it I admit (a mate showed me bspedit and I kept on using it for my needs, for our skillz server).

Of course, now I guess a stripper2 config could be added to this map, if we want to add some new bags here or there.

Have fun testing it with the botties Wink

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by OmniDragon on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:34 am

Wow! Thanks I'll check it out in a bit. Smile
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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Easykill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:52 am

Thank you for taking the time to do this. I have the files and will start playing around with the bots in a day or so.


Edit:

I'm making good progress on the map. I have the script working and the bots are running the flags properly and alternating between points.
There is some more baffling behavior though. According to the debug control point availability information the flag command points are alternating as they should so they run one flag and then the other. The problem is that the bots don't always ignore the unavailable command point that has a flag point attached to it. In other words, when point one is not available the bots still seem to want to try to camp on the point one flag point. The debug information says the point isn't available but the bots ignore this. They don't seem to be camping the second flag point though, which is available. They do properly pick up the flags and run them back and forth but its going to be one of those problems, like with troy2, where half the team is off jumping around an irrelevant flag point.

I also had an issue where they were creating their own shortcut path, bypassing an unavailable command point intended to keep them from backtracking. I found a workaround for this but don't understand why they were directly running between points that weren't directly connected.

Have you tried getting the original run waypointing to work with the new map? I can't get it to load the original waypoint file with the modified map.

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Easykill on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:12 pm

Could either of these techniques(stripper or bspedit) allow the changing of the messages for things like flag capping?

The reason I ask is I'm wondering if we can find a workaround for the fact that omni and I were not able to get the waypointing to trigger on the troy2 flag cap messages. The messages seem to be causing some problem as they are complicated multiline messages. This forced omni to come up with a way of triggering on the flag return messages but this gives the humans quite a lot of time to advance on the next cap point before the bots begin responding.

It sounds like stripper has the advantage here, if possible, as it intercepts these things which should mean that the old waypoint file is usable after the change. I haven't been able to get the original run waypoint file to work with the modified map that hi there bots provided. I wouldn't want to have to completely reconstruct all the waypointing on troy2.


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Re: Map editing thread

Post by hi there bots! on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:05 am

Changing the messages should be no problem.

I can try with bspedit if you want.

For both teams, there are two messages (for capping each of the two flags, of course).

They go like:

"message" "You captured the flag\n"
"team_broadcast" "Your team captured the flag\n"
"non_team_broadcast" "You suck! The other team captured\n Get Ready for the turnaround!\n"

So I guess you would like the team_broadcast message to mention the color of the captured flag? (so that the bots will know which way to go)

I could add the color of the flag in each of these messages, even, and if you can make the script get these messages, it should be ok (if I understood it correctly).

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Easykill on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:19 pm

Don't put any effort into bspedit for this until we know whether stripper can be used because I haven't had luck with using previous waypoint files with the modified map and I really don't want to have to completely redo the waypointing for that map from scratch if there is any way to avoid it.

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by OmniDragon on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:34 pm

You guys have completely lost me on some of this... Alot of it is way over my head... I don't think we can edit any of the map messages with stripper2. I think it's for entities only. (Cues CL to come in and prove me wrong... again Very Happy He knows I love it! ;D)
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Re: Map editing thread

Post by M0N3Y on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:52 pm

We just tried the run_bb map with easykill's waypoints. We had some mix reactions with the folks lol.

Red spawns at yellow flag and has to cap where we basically spawn at blue to release green flag. Seems almost impossible for them. I think it would work better if we spawned at yellow and moved flag to green.

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by Easykill on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:00 am

Once we capped the first flag then we would be sitting on the next cap point again and we would have the same problem.

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by hi there bots! on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:51 pm

Yeah, M0N3Y, hehe, you forgot something: it's a special map, both teams have the SAME GOAL, capturing the SAME flag. And, at start, the humans have to go and get the yellow flag in the generator, and I guess Easykill have told some botties to defend this sector Smile

And when a flag carrier is fragged, the flag goes back to its original point instantly, really a SPECIAL map!

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Re: Map editing thread

Post by q/)/)/)/) Knoq on Sat May 18, 2013 12:06 pm

Dirty cfgs. I like that C|L
Anyhoo, as mentioned above, the cfgs is where its at...except when merging to types of bots >HPB n Fox for example. Since this is not yer current configuration i will omit the details.
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Re: Map editing thread

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